I acknowledge the so called "crisis of representation" in most of western countries (but not only) and consider democratic experiments that may bring answers to it. Election no longer seems to be enough to give representative’s decisions real legitimacy in public opinion while the proliferation of devices that more or less explicitly articulate participation and deliberation would participate or reveal a "deliberative imperative" of public action or a "new spirit of democracy" . Although they meet a certain lack of trust and are criticized for their ability to renew representative democracy, change the relationship of domination, encourage participation, ensure the conditions of deliberation ...Therefore the temptation to consider "participation" outside institutionalized arrangements is increasing. I choose to overcome a “top down” VS “bottom up” opposition, and seriously consider more or less institutionalised devices, without denying what could be a radical approach of democracy. I propose to consider two contemporary experiments, an experience of a priori “peaceful democracy”: Paris participatory budget and an experience of a priori "insurgent" democracy: the Icelandic pirate party. Between investigation and normative approach, I wish to answer the question, what could the democratic model be here, by analysing the articulation between tree mains items: deliberation, participation and representation.